"Who is a Jew," UK version: a GoldaLeah must-read
GoldaLeah, of Go West, Young Jew, published "Explosive: Who is a Jew? UK
"A secular court has ruled that a Jewish school is not allowed determine the Jewishness of its students based on Judaism's own standards.
Wow.
According to the court, instead of determining if you are Jewish based on whether your mother is Jewish or had an Orthodox conversion, the school should base the definition of Judaism "on faith, however defined".
When, ever, has being a Jew been defined on "faith"? How many of us Jews (Orthodox, Reform, Reconstructionist, Renewal, Conservative, etc.) could easily pass a faith test? Could you have passed it yesterday? What about tomorrow? How many of us would have to give up calling ourselves Jewish because we don't "practice" our Judaism enough?"
This is quite disturbing, and a cautionary tale: There's a price to be paid when the government gives direct subsidies to religious schools.
"A secular court has ruled that a Jewish school is not allowed determine the Jewishness of its students based on Judaism's own standards.
Wow.
According to the court, instead of determining if you are Jewish based on whether your mother is Jewish or had an Orthodox conversion, the school should base the definition of Judaism "on faith, however defined".
Seriously, there must not be a single Jew anywhere near that court.
When, ever, has being a Jew been defined on "faith"? How many of us Jews (Orthodox, Reform, Reconstructionist, Renewal, Conservative, etc.) could easily pass a faith test? Could you have passed it yesterday? What about tomorrow? How many of us would have to give up calling ourselves Jewish because we don't "practice" our Judaism enough?"
This is quite disturbing, and a cautionary tale: There's a price to be paid when the government gives direct subsidies to religious schools.
posted by Shira Salamone at 12:53 PM
15 Comments:
indeed. the NY Jewish Week had an article about the hebrew language charter school in Bklyn, and the main person interviewed had a kid who wasn't even halachically Jewish.
JDub, that's the only way to get government funding--the law requires that admission to a charter school, or any other public school, be open to persons of any religion. (Foreign readers, please note that, in the US, the term "public school" means "government-funded" school.)
I know. I'm agreeing with your point. That's why public funding of parochial schools is a bad idea, because then the gov't starts deciding who can attend. Also, I don't think that charter schools are in any way a solution to the so-called "tuition crisis" since it's basically public school with Hebrew taught. No thanks.
jdub, agreed that charter schools are NOT "free Day Schools." However, they aren't simply public schools with Hebrew Language. The are public schools, with the admissions requirements, with Hebrew Language, and private administration that permits a non-public school to share space before/after school, which means that a "Talmud Torah" program doesn't become after school "Hebrew School," because the kids don't go anywhere. It also means have children in a pluralistic but largely Jewish environment.
The Ben Gamla charter schools here and 95%+ "Jewish" students, where they may (or may not) fit the Halachic standard, but are certainly under someone's definition of Jewish.
The "tuition crisis" will not be solved this way, but the "education crisis" may. A large portion of the Jewish community that wants a Jewish education cannot afford private school, period. The approach for the past 20-30 years has been a "need blind" admissions, with those that can afford to pay covering the full boat, and others being admitted for free/cheaply without regard to the school's ability to fundraise to make up the difference.
As tuition increases have exceeded inflation, which is a given if you want overall costs to track inflation PLUS have a less than 100% payment rate, the economics are untenable.
Clearly that trajectory is impossible to cover, and nobody in the leadership seems interested in cost containment, so there is a need to at least experiment with other options.
To the RWMO and Chareidi crowd, this isn't an option. But to the non-Orthodox and LWMO crowd, this seems like an interesting approach where the children should learn Hebrew, which may not be a sufficient Jewish education, but is a LARGE part of the foundation for Jewish learning.
Basic Jewish observance -- Shabbat, Chagim, Kashrut -- requires no formal education, part of why that is the core of Jewish law given that most Jews never got a formal education. Jewish learning requires Hebrew knowledge first, Aramaic second.
Now that will teach children how to be an observant Jew capable of learning if they so choose, but won't impart ANY Orthodox hashkafa in them. For the right-wing spectrum, that's not enough, for the left-wing spectrum, that may be.
OTOH, that removes your high income, small number of children segment from the tuition payers, which exacerbates the problem, but that's also the group that places the least value on the hashkafa imparting that is the monopoly of full time Jewish schools.
Al:
A number of problems with your scenario (and I consider myself halachically serious, LWMO).
1) How many Hebrew language charter schools with NYC allow? I'm guessing the one they have, plus potentially a second. Given the number of kids that will apply, many of whom wouldn't go to day school any way, it really solves the problems of a teeny handful of folks.
2) I personally find pluralism overrated. It's fine in college, but primary and secondary education is, and always has been, about indoctrination. I'm not just talking Judaism, btw. I find the move away from that POV (e.g., the removal of civics classes) horrifying. I similarly want my kids to be given a firm background in Judaism, not merely "culture."
Have to run, but i'm sure this will continue on!
jdub,
I don't understand NYC machine politics, it could be 1, it could be 400, I assume it's about lining up voting blocs and campaign contributions.
For those that wouldn't attend day school, it's a MUCH stronger "Jewish" education than they'd get elsewhere, if for no other reason than a strong Hebrew background helps with everything else.
Regarding indoctrination, sure, this opens up a different avenue. Those that value Orthodox indoctrination will find this useless. Those that see that has a neutral to negative value, will find this a positive.
I'm as big an oddball as Shira. My practices are on the "right wing" side of our MO neighborhood, in that we don't "eat out," etc., but my ideology is outside what is "orthodox," even amongst the most modern proponents. I want my children to get a solid Hebrew background and learn observances, but I don't really want the Orthodox indoctrination, so I see this as a great solution.
Kosher cafeteria, Hebrew language, an an "A" rated school by the district, little to no "ideology" being pushed... works for me, even if not for you.
That's cool, Al. To each their own. That said, I don't see any school system allowing more than 1 or 2 of these.
So, to summarize:
Plus side--Kids will get a thorough education in the Hebrew language at no cost to parents beyond taxes.
Minus side--Kids won't learn anything specifically Jewish, and not all the students will be Jewish.
For those not interested in "religious indoctrination," the lack thereof may be a plus, but for those for whom "religious indoctrination" is exactly what they want for their kids, this won't work at all.
jdub, Broward County has two already, and a charter was issued for a high school.
Our politics are different than NYC. In general, there was a fight to get the Ben Gamla charter, because the Day School advocates went crazy, but once victorious, it's non-controversial.
As long as they maintain good FCAT scores and are over-subscribed (and therefore fill their classes), I find it unlikely that the school board can stop them from opening more up.
Our state legislature threatened to create a state charter board that would overrule the county school boards on charters (you could, in theory, go to either committee, but the GOP flooded state one would rubber stamp, so our local Democratic School Board backed down so they can maintain some concept of control).
I think that this will result in a LOT of students attending at least K-8 in a "Hebrew" school, particularly students that otherwise would NOT get Hebrew or Religious instruction except Hebrew Language after school for 3 years...
This could do two things:
1. Help the tuition crisis for individual families, I know several that are out of Day School and into Ben Gamla, and started to repair their finances
2. Increase Jewish education amongst the non-Orthodox
3. Give the "Conservadox" Jews an option between "expensive with Orthodox indoctrination," and "expensive, quasi-Orthodox indoctrination, but none of their classmates keep Kosher."
It doesn't solve the tuition crisis, only solution there is to figure out how to get tuition increases below inflation, and EVERY effort I see out there is focused on the "demand side" (more scholarship, more fund raising, endowments, etc.) of more availability, and not on the "supply side" of shifting the supply curve right, and therefor providing more education for less money.
Obviously the market will correct in the long run, but each year this goes on, a HUGE amount of wealth is leaving the Frum community... Probably take 5 years to recover for each year we leave it amuck... (my estimates, going from -$500m to +$100m takes 5 years to make up for each negative year)
"Our politics are different than NYC." You can say that again, Miami Al. The opening of a Hebrew-language charter school was extremely controversial in New York City, in that the general public did/does not trust such a school to be truly secular.
"I think that this will result in a LOT of students attending at least K-8 in a "Hebrew" school, particularly students that otherwise would NOT get Hebrew or Religious instruction except Hebrew Language after school for 3 years..."
Not in NYC--the majority of students in NYC's Hebrew charter school are not Jewish by *anyone's* definition.
"This could do two [er, 3?] things:
1. Help the tuition crisis for individual families, I know several that are out of Day School and into Ben Gamla, and started to repair their finances
That would only work in NYC if more Jewish students were enrolled, but the school can't legally chose students based on their religion.
2. Increase Jewish education amongst the non-Orthodox
Same as above.
3. Give the "Conservadox" Jews an option between "expensive with Orthodox indoctrination," and "expensive, quasi-Orthodox indoctrination, but none of their classmates keep Kosher."
A former rabbi of ours (Conservative, JTS grad) said that he and his wife decided not to send their kids to a Schechter (Conservative) Day School when they realized that the school didn't provide n'tilat yadayim (ritual handwashing) cups in the lunchroom--when they asked about that, they were told that those students who wished to do n'tilat yadayim could always wash in the boys' or girls' room and say the b'rachah blessing after leaving that room. The rabbi and his wife were not interested in enrolling their children in any school in which ritual observance was an option, not an expectation.
"It doesn't solve the tuition crisis, only solution there is to figure out how to get tuition increases below inflation, and EVERY effort I see out there is focused on the "demand side" (more scholarship, more fund raising, endowments, etc.) of more availability, and not on the "supply side" of shifting the supply curve right, and therefor providing more education for less money."
Things like joint purchasing of maintenance and office supplies would make sense in areas in which there is more than one yeshiva/day school. At the risk of having my head handed to me on a silver platter, may I ask why it might not also be possible to share some of the administrative staff?
jdub, "I similarly want my kids to be given a firm background in Judaism, not merely "culture."
Just a clarification, I'm using culture as a broad term. Halacha dictates no cooking on Shabbat, preferably with warm food... Cholent at Kiddush is culture. Large chunks of Judaism are the culture of the Jews and/or culture of the Orthodox Jews... not just bagels & lox...
Regarding Jewish students in the Hebrew Charter... Jews are 18% of NYC population, and more likely to be interested in a Hebrew Charter. How can it not be a majority? Who is sending their kids there?
We had one small "black" church (black according to the media, it was an Islander church, and the churchs for the Islanders are NIGHT and DAY from the African American Churches) encouraging their children to enroll, because they were in the area and wanted their kids in a school with modest uniforms and a culture of achievement. They figured being with Jewish kids would help them.
There is probably modest savings to be obtained with purchasing cooperatives, the problem is, who gets stuck with the bill when the Chareidi Yeshiva bounces their check for their portion of the supplies, then closes down their corporation leaving bills to the "goyim" unpaid, and demands to join the purchasing cooperative under their new corporation.
The biggest chunk of the budget is staff... you could DRASTICALLY reduce administration, which would cut your higher paid staff. You could freeze salaries (or lay off) your highest paid workers, some of the teachers (some, not many), make obscene money because they got raises in flush times and kept get COLA+ raises in lean times. You COULD do a lot... but nobody running any schools wants to talk about it.
People not paying their bills talk about wanting more jobs for "community" members and demanding things thought.
Miami Al, when you speak of "Islanders," are you referring to black Americans of West Indian origin? I worked with a few West Indians when I was in my twenties, and they were quite adamant about not being like "mainstream" American blacks (my description, for lack of a better one). I can easily imagine West Indian blacks sending their children to any school that they believe will provide their children with a high-quality education.
Ouch. I hadn't even considered the possibility that one school might get stuck with another school's bills.
I'm not so sure about cutting teachers, but I do wonder whether it would be possible for schools to manage with a smaller administrative staff.
Yeah, that's a term I haven't heard in a while, West Indies. Yeah from the Islands. Other than skin tone, no cultural connection to "black America" AKA "African Americans."
In the day schools, grade schoolers have two teachers all day for classes of 20 because they need a separate teach for Judaic and Secular... How can you NOT look at cutting teachers?
BTW: according to HLA's website, 60% identify as white, and while there is no survey of the student by religion, it's believed that most of the "white" students are Ashkenazi Jews. It also seems that a LARGE chunk of the students, have either Russian or Hebrew spoken as a first language in the home, implying Russian immigrants (largely Jewish), and Israelis, the latter of which may not identify as white under a survey, they should be flagged as Middle Eastern.
Judging off public numbers, it would appear that 70%-75% of HLA students are "Jewish" to some degree.
While Halacha divides the world into Jew and non-Jew, in America, it's not so simple. If my child met in college someone from a Reform Temple, started dating, and learned that their father was Jewish, raised Jewish, but not Halachically Jewish, we're in a weird gray area. Clearly, a conversion is required prior to marriage, but it's not the same as meeting a lapsed Catholic that undergoes a "quickie Conversion" for purposes of marriage.
Halacha suggests that you can't convert for marriage, but what about an area like that. The it isn't a Jew and gentile, it's a Jew and a "Jew." The Torah makes mention of gerim living amongst us, separate from ger tzaddik that join the Jewish people as Jews.
I'm pretty sure that if we had a Gadol at the stature of R. Moshe Feinstein, we'd be looking for a solution for these non-Halachic Jews, that would allow them to join the Halachic Jewish people quickly, easily, and with their dignity in place.
A family in my neighborhood had a weird story. The wife grew up Jewish, went to a Conservative Synagogue, celebrated her Bat Mitzvah, but her mom was a convert... but an Orthodox convert (obviously in your era, where non-Orthodox Jews would undergo an Orthodox conversion so that there was no question, but the Conservative Movement and the Modern Orthodox world were also trying to do universal conversion standards)... the Rabbi overseeing the conversion remembered her mom's conversion, there weren't a lot of Orthodox conversions in that town of that era...
With ONE small detail... the mother converted after her daughter was born, and the daughter wasn't immersed in the mikvah with her for whatever reason. So, despite being "Jewish" her whole life, celebrating Jewish lifecycle events, and only dating Jewish men to "in marry" she's technically a gentile.
Well, she met an Orthodox guy, and starts studying for conversion, which is a two year process, despite her prior background. Well, they find a Conservative Rabbi, he "converts" her, they have a Conservative Wedding, then moves to the Orthodox neighborhood and studies for conversion again. Two years later, she converts, and takes her child from the first marriage, plus this "marriage" for conversion.
Long story short: happy Jewish family, nominally Orthodox, relatively observant, and three generations of converts in one family.
IMO, her situation, being technically a non-Jew, is real, but Orthodox leadership on the matter OUGHT to have a "fast track" to conversion for people that in good faith thought that they were Jewish, and now have an issue come up.
Fast track from a practical point of view, it shouldn't take AS long for them to prove their interest in being Jewish, they've been trying since they were a child!
Miami Al, in New York City, "Islanders" call themselves West Indian blacks, and even have their own West Indian parade every September in Brooklyn. "Other than skin tone, no cultural connection to "black America" AKA "African Americans." That does seem to me to be the way West Indian blacks see themselves.
So you think that our local Hebrew-language charter school has a lot of Russian and Israeli students? I wouldn't be surprised. But of course, this being NYC, I wouldn't be surprised by much of anything. :)
". . . Orthodox leadership on the matter OUGHT to have a "fast track" to conversion for people that in good faith thought that they were Jewish, and now have an issue come up." That would be reasonable, but I'm afraid there's not enough reasonableness within the Orthodox rabbinate--the reasonable rabbis seem to me to be in the minority, or not the ones in power, unfortunately. I hope the situation will imporve.
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